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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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welcome to the skeptic zone you've come

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on a very special day

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it's always a special day hello maynard

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richard saunders here with maynard we're

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at the carrington hotel here at the um

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wonderful blue mountains in kitumba

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we're here for paracon and we're taking

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this opportunity to sneak away and into

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a side room here and do the introduction

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for this week's show show number

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397 for the 29th of may mina yes and of

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course uh

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it's got a ceiling that's about 800 feet

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high which is why it's a bit echo with

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wooden floors it's exactly how you

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should not normally record audio but

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we're in the field we're doing our thing

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and we're drinking heavily well we say i

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sound like i've been drinking heavily

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but i'm just getting over a rather nasty

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cold anyway i'm here at parakon i gave a

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talk last night but you'll you and i

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will be discussing that a bit later on

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in the show together with more

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interviews you're doing here at the

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paranormal convention what's it like me

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not being here at a paranormal

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convention look i imagine most uh as

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they would like to say card carrying

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skeptics this is not a place they would

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normally come because they go that's a

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lack of evidence come on people cite

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your sources well look it's a blowout

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for people in the the australian

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ghostbusting industry it's for people to

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talk about anomalous activity uh to

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float some theories and we don't have

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many of these things in australia um a

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lot of people think well again why would

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you look it's a great bunch of people

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getting together and talking about

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things that they don't normally get to

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talk about because everyone's got

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something in common for this

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you might not agree with them you might

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not agree with the conclusions they draw

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but i enjoyed the vibe at this you know

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i mean you know i i was sitting next to

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you during one of the uh forums today

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richard and it was hard going for you

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particularly when the subject of alien

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greys came up but you but i was going

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yeah yep so what bring it on and you

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were like oh what i said i saw your

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two-pay move

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you saw my pen writing furiously as i'm

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doing my yes yes i think richard's got

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some notes to read to the children later

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i do and my toupee was moving obviously

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also on this week's show we have a

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report about bell gibson now this is the

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woman recently in australia who claimed

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that the miracle diets and things cured

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her brain cancer it turned out she was

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lying and she never had brain cancer yes

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and what i think is interesting is that

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because of what she was doing it was a

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few uh

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lifestyle magazines that presented

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awards to her for being a fierce female

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and things like that and i don't know if

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they've had to renege on those awards or

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how they feel after it but i hope that

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because of that that they'll look into

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people's claims a little bit more

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closely next time i hope so also on this

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week's show sharon hill from doubtful

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news with a piece on uh really

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written for the media a guide for the

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media on what is skepticism which is

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really interesting sharon hill's going

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to be reading that out and a really

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great little bit that we did in there at

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the cafe madame froufrou with tim

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ferguson as sort of a bunga bunga

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skeptic zone crossover that's right tim

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of course has uh ms as tim says ms get

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into it he says it on stage as a joke

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okay right that's sweet it's tim

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ferguson from the anthony anthony

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all-stars

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and of course he's constantly bombarded

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with by people who claim cures and

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you've heard him on the show talking

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about his opinion of hookworms and

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various things he's been offered before

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so it's always fun to have a chat with

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tim on bunga bunga and it's a it's a

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bunga bunga skeptic zone crossover

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episode uh it's a rare thing it's a rare

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thing well may not i think it's time for

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us to run outside we'll run to the bar

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and have a nice hot chocolate since

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we're up in the blue mountains and it's

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a nippy day and i'm going to talk to a

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few people about what is really going on

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at pine gap what is really going on

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while we're doing that we hope you

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here's maynard's spooky action

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oh we're here in the grounds of the

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beautiful carrington hotel this is it's

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been a very interesting weekend we're

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here for paracon australia 2016. this is

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the third one i've been along to it's

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always an interesting weekend lots of

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people in the ghost hunting industry

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here lots of people talking about

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anomalies and paranormal and oddly

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enough this year this guy has been

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invited onto the bill mr richard

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saunders yeah hi i'm maynard i'm glad

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that you could come up yes last night i

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gave a talk here at parakon about

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uh a skeptic's guide to the million

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dollar challenge no 100 000 challenge

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here in australia and it was something

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of a paranormal feat for me just to get

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through it because in the past week i

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developed this really heavy cold you can

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hear we still got a bit of it there and

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look and how did it go uh basically you

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were trying to tell anyone if they were

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to pass uh randy's challenge or the

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challenge of the australian skeptics how

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to do it and what they've got to do how

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did you how did it go down actually it

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went down really well i was quite i was

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quite um

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as a motorbike goes well that's a nice

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motorbike that is a cool motorcycle very

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nice and and for postie lindley i think

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it's a triumph too i think so

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now it was great

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i had a a nice big audience i gave away

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some goodies which was a lot of fun and

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i explained what the skepticism is all

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about and how people should apply if

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they think they have a paranormal

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ability and i went through some of the

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history of the more prominent people

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who've tried to um take the take the

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money were there any people there that

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thought that they might have a crack at

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it or thought there should be some

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people they know that should have a go

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at it

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uh no nobody stepped forward

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there are people in the audience who i

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happen to know

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claim they have supernatural psychic

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powers but oddly enough they didn't rush

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forward at the end to apply although

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someone

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did

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express interest to apply

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and i think the the claim is something

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to do with psychic predictions and

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playing cards but i will see if that

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eventuates because there is a widespread

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belief in the paranormal community the

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reason these prizes haven't gone off is

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that they're rigged in some way or that

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you know randy or you guys are

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pulling a fast one to make sure it never

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goes off oh yeah and i addressed that in

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my talk it's it's one of the big issues

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people

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assume is i have to catch my breath it's

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the altitude i keep telling people it's

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the altitude it's also my lungs aren't

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working very well at the moment but we

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are up here in the mountains people

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assume because

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uh they don't trust us anyway and since

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this these prices have been offered for

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i don't know more than 50 years now and

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nobody's won the paranormal uh crowd

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will assume and it's assumed it's not

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been won because we're cheating

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well by the way you mentioned your lungs

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and i'd just like to shout out to

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skeptic and uh atheist from the dumb

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dane atheist podcast bob darby he's

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going in for an operation on his lungs

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fairly shortly he's had a bit of a

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trouble with a hole in the lung and he's

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having an operation to get that all

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fixed up so we wish him all the well

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from the skeptic zone because uh you

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think your lungs are bad he's coughing a

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bit yeah i i can imagine no all the best

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all the best was interesting last night

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um when i was giving my talk and

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skeptics on listeners

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may know some of them some of you have

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seen me talk in public at various

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meetings i love the talk um of course

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but last night i was halfway through a

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sentence at many stages in the evening i

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had this go ah

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stop halfway through a sentence and get

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a breath because yeah it seems hardly

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fair because you've never been a smoker

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for as far as i know it's not fair

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maynard this what's going on so no i

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know it just happens right where's clean

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living got you saunders that's where now

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i just happened to get a cold at the

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wrong time that's all no i i've really

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enjoyed the uh the discussion we were

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just in on there that was uh powercon

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australia 2016. of course and the et and

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spirit contact panel there are a number

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of people there from uh

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the president of the ufo research

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queensland uh new south wales ufo

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research they were there there was a

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there's a sheriff cheryl mariana barry

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taylor's there damian knott was there

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all talking about et's and contact

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connections there and that that's kind

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of what i heard there is what i have

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heard on on many of the podcasts i

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regularly listen to i didn't find i

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found that good to be getting an

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australian perspective on it there but i

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didn't hear anything that i hadn't heard

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before from other sources and i i think

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you found that a little bit more it was

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a bit stranger for you richard i guess

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in a way it was to to hear these things

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uh spoken out in in public like that i

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mean there were various allegations

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there that there are

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alien hybrids being produced at pine gap

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here in australia which is a military

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base and a grey alien hybrids might take

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over the world and there are robot

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clones and lizards and it really was

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that i'm not making any of this up

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that's exactly what they were telling

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the audience and the funny thing was

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or the interesting thing was that in a

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place like this it's all reinforcement

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so people come up with these what to us

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are outlandish and fanciful ideas

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however when they say them the people

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around them at these conventions agree

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not or or embellish and reinforce them

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it's really interesting i mean some

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people would say the same thing about

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perhaps a skeptic's convention where

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you're discussing

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i'm trying to think of a parallel where

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it's taken for granted that uh

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big pharma is doing good things and and

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yes they know they do bad things yeah

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it's almost like there's some things

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taken i'm trying to use the word faith

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there's some some things in certain

272
00:09:32,150 --> 00:09:30,640
groups there's things that are assumed

273
00:09:33,350 --> 00:09:32,160
and if you're into a skeptic's thing

274
00:09:35,590 --> 00:09:33,360
there'd be someone at the back going oh

275
00:09:37,670 --> 00:09:35,600
hang on a big farmer sometimes makes

276
00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:37,680
mistakes

277
00:09:41,670 --> 00:09:40,080
a good example of that is where where

278
00:09:43,190 --> 00:09:41,680
it's different at a skeptic's convention

279
00:09:44,470 --> 00:09:43,200
is um a couple of years ago and the

280
00:09:45,590 --> 00:09:44,480
amazing meeting

281
00:09:46,630 --> 00:09:45,600
when we were doing the million dollar

282
00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:46,640
challenge

283
00:09:50,870 --> 00:09:48,560
um and they're tough they're they're

284
00:09:53,509 --> 00:09:50,880
they take up all the committee's time at

285
00:09:55,829 --> 00:09:53,519
the the convention at the the amazing

286
00:09:57,990 --> 00:09:55,839
meeting and we do the best we can we

287
00:09:59,110 --> 00:09:58,000
have a a live stage production a million

288
00:10:00,470 --> 00:09:59,120
dollar challenge but we don't get

289
00:10:02,389 --> 00:10:00,480
everything right there are certain

290
00:10:04,389 --> 00:10:02,399
technical aspects we we stuff up on

291
00:10:06,630 --> 00:10:04,399
sometimes maybe or we get some

292
00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:06,640
mathematics wrong or protocol we could

293
00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:09,120
have done better and wow are we called

294
00:10:12,550 --> 00:10:11,279
out on it you know after the test or

295
00:10:14,310 --> 00:10:12,560
during the test

296
00:10:16,550 --> 00:10:14,320
we we're picked up on it straight away

297
00:10:18,389 --> 00:10:16,560
people do not hold back whereas here if

298
00:10:20,150 --> 00:10:18,399
someone makes

299
00:10:21,910 --> 00:10:20,160
as i said to us an outrageous or

300
00:10:24,150 --> 00:10:21,920
fanciful claim

301
00:10:26,550 --> 00:10:24,160
there's nobody leaping up to say hang on

302
00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:26,560
a second but i can bet you after that

303
00:10:29,430 --> 00:10:27,839
form there'll be someone that'll go up

304
00:10:31,430 --> 00:10:29,440
to someone who won't be happy about the

305
00:10:33,269 --> 00:10:31,440
way a certain uh extraterrestrial

306
00:10:34,389 --> 00:10:33,279
contact theory was explained or

307
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:34,399
something like that there won't be

308
00:10:37,829 --> 00:10:36,480
complete agreement you might be right

309
00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:37,839
it'd be interesting to find hello

310
00:10:41,269 --> 00:10:40,000
there's a dog now what's this well look

311
00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:41,279
look normally i would think that this

312
00:10:44,630 --> 00:10:42,800
was an apparition that just appeared

313
00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:44,640
behind richard but there's a

314
00:10:50,230 --> 00:10:46,240
there's a dog that's doing a very good

315
00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:50,240
impersonation of a wolf horse hybrid yes

316
00:10:54,310 --> 00:10:52,240
it's got a collar on yes hello dog mr

317
00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:54,320
brown the dog is called mr brown well i

318
00:10:58,949 --> 00:10:57,040
mean so that was the dog that hijacked

319
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:58,959
the qantas plane in the 70s that's very

320
00:11:02,550 --> 00:11:00,880
interesting i didn't know as a dog they

321
00:11:04,230 --> 00:11:02,560
were visited by a dog in the gardens of

322
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:04,240
the carrington hotel

323
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:06,320
there's a band name for you but

324
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:08,959
but but i found interesting and uh one

325
00:11:13,269 --> 00:11:10,480
of the one of the people from the

326
00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:13,279
research ufo research groups i said that

327
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:15,440
one of their members had tried to break

328
00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:17,760
into pine gap now

329
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:20,079
i would imagine i don't know if you're a

330
00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:23,120
skeptic or a believer in the anomalous

331
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:25,120
pine gap is a military installation

332
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:27,200
their business is not allowing people to

333
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:28,640
break in they have experience with

334
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:30,800
protesters if you can break in good luck

335
00:11:34,870 --> 00:11:32,560
to you but i imagine it would be like

336
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:34,880
trying to get access to area uh

337
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:37,680
area 52 area 52.

338
00:11:40,470 --> 00:11:39,200
well that's even harder to find that

339
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:40,480
it'll be like trying to get access to

340
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:42,640
area 51 their job is to carry guns and

341
00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:44,160
stop people getting in there so i think

342
00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:45,760
that would be a difficult thing it'd

343
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:47,279
probably be easier to get into a

344
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:48,720
government office in canberra than that

345
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:51,120
but still i i'd admire their

346
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:52,720
their their spunk for trying to do it

347
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:55,279
but it seems a touch dangerous to me for

348
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:57,200
the uh the benefit of our international

349
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,839
listeners pine gap is a military base

350
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:01,839
a government base uh in the center of

351
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:05,120
australia not far from uh alice springs

352
00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:07,360
and it's a joint base with the the

353
00:12:11,590 --> 00:12:09,680
american government and i don't know

354
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,600
what they do because nobody really knows

355
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:13,519
i think it's just general intelligence

356
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:15,279
gathering and things like that they keep

357
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:16,720
adding what they say well they keep

358
00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:18,720
adding aerials there and there is good

359
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:20,959
reason to suspect that uh there could be

360
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:23,680
a relay for controlling drones because

361
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:25,440
it could be a relay jump point for that

362
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:28,000
it could be a signals intelligence unit

363
00:12:30,790 --> 00:12:29,760
area gathering information we do know

364
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,800
that there's that there's a split

365
00:12:33,910 --> 00:12:32,399
command there you've got areas where the

366
00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:33,920
australians aren't allowed to go and as

367
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:35,440
americans where the americans aren't

368
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:37,360
supposed to go uh i know that gough

369
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:39,279
whitlam uh former prime minister was

370
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,639
keen on getting rid of it he paid a

371
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,639
visit to the place and then after he did

372
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:44,399
he was kind of quiet on getting rid of

373
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:46,000
it so whatever whatever he saw there he

374
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,040
obviously

375
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:48,959
maybe saw the greys the grey clone

376
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:51,440
robots well look you know it's so it's

377
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:53,120
it's it's you know i mean with u.s

378
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,720
marines now stationed in darwin and

379
00:12:58,389 --> 00:12:56,480
bombers to be stationed

380
00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:58,399
in there i mean it's it's gonna be it's

381
00:13:02,150 --> 00:12:59,839
a pretty crucial thing and i'm sure if

382
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:02,160
there was a nuclear uh exchange

383
00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:04,240
something about pine gap would be very

384
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:06,240
important just as the relay station

385
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:07,839
that's in western australia which used

386
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:09,519
to send out the low frequency messages

387
00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:11,600
to the uh the american submarine so

388
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:12,880
we're fairly crucial for getting the

389
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:14,160
message out in this part of the world

390
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:15,680
richard

391
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:17,839
no doubt and no doubt secret military

392
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:19,360
things happen there but that's what it's

393
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:21,680
there for i don't think there are aliens

394
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,680
being bred there

395
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:25,920
mind you it would be a good place but i

396
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:27,760
would imagine that it would be better to

397
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:29,680
have a place of people that's remote

398
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,600
that people don't know about so because

399
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:33,120
people know about pine gap it'd be

400
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,040
better to try and create one that was

401
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:36,959
somewhere else even more secret

402
00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:38,240
that'd be a better idea wouldn't it

403
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:40,800
under this very hotel that's it we've

404
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:43,040
discovered it and of course for our

405
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:44,480
english listeners if you've ever seen

406
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,600
the show

407
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:47,519
the prisoner and i don't mean it saw

408
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:49,440
block h i mean the prisoner with patrick

409
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:50,480
magoon

410
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:51,839
it's a little bit i just looked up there

411
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:53,040
and it reminded me a little bit of the

412
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:54,079
village

413
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:55,279
in the prisoner

414
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,440
if uh folks just google the carrington

415
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:01,279
uh blue mountains you'll see pictures of

416
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:03,600
this wonderful old hotel where this

417
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:05,120
convention is being held at and it's a

418
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:07,120
lovely sunny day look yeah and look i

419
00:14:10,949 --> 00:14:08,880
enjoy being around people talking about

420
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:10,959
these things and and discussing these

421
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:12,800
things quite openly and talking to ghost

422
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:14,480
hunters and things like that richard and

423
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,959
i skeptics are seen as being in this

424
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:18,720
environment being

425
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:20,800
negative

426
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,279
closed-minded debunkers that are there

427
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:25,600
players won't believe that yeah that are

428
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:27,519
there to rain on everyone's parade and

429
00:14:31,509 --> 00:14:29,519
make fun and hold people up for mockery

430
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:31,519
and you know and be quiet i've sat

431
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:32,720
through lots of sessions and i'm sitting

432
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,800
there taking notes and even in one

433
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:36,399
session somebody referred to me directly

434
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:37,920
and i smiled and waved and that was the

435
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,760
end of it i'm not you know for me to

436
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:41,360
stand up and try and

437
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:43,199
uh take people to task here i think

438
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:44,800
would be a waste of time i'd rather just

439
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:47,760
uh sit down take notes and um report on

440
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,360
it later there's an interesting

441
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:51,600
skeptical issue here at what point

442
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:54,160
should someone who is is

443
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:55,839
i'm not going to use the word believer

444
00:14:58,949 --> 00:14:57,279
someone who follows the path of

445
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:58,959
evidence-based

446
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,199
facts um at what point do you think they

447
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:03,360
should get up and say something at what

448
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:04,959
point should that actually be crossed at

449
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:06,480
what line should that be crossed because

450
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:08,240
you don't want to uh you know you don't

451
00:15:11,829 --> 00:15:09,680
want to be getting into arguments all

452
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:11,839
the time no no you have you have to bite

453
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:14,240
your tongue a lot i think if somebody if

454
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:15,920
i went to a talk and somebody was

455
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:17,440
encouraging people to go and see a

456
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:19,760
psychic surgeon for example i think i'd

457
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:21,440
be pretty tempted to stand up and and

458
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,040
say something pretty strong about that

459
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:25,120
because that's an outright scam and sham

460
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:26,800
but the general flow of conversation

461
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:28,560
people talking about ufos or psychic

462
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,959
experiences that let them

463
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:32,639
yeah and where do you sit on the

464
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,120
spectrum about the et

465
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:37,440
paranormal connection there do you think

466
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:38,639
that uh

467
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,560
what experiences do you think generally

468
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:42,800
you you could uh maybe take a guess that

469
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,600
these people are having no i no idea i

470
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,600
mean the trouble is

471
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:49,440
when what we've heard and what i've

472
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,720
heard most of this convention are

473
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,639
stories this happened

474
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:54,480
he saw this this happened to me it was

475
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,600
like this

476
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:57,920
we don't know whether they had a true

477
00:16:01,350 --> 00:15:59,759
experience with real aliens we don't

478
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:01,360
know if they had a waking dream we don't

479
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:02,720
know if they had

480
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:04,639
delirium caused by illness we don't know

481
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:07,680
if they're just making it up so

482
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:09,120
to get back to basics it's really

483
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:11,519
difficult uh at the end of the day

484
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:13,040
the stories i've heard don't have hard

485
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:14,399
evidence behind them

486
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,920
one of the speakers they said that you

487
00:16:19,509 --> 00:16:17,519
can't criticize someone until you've

488
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:19,519
seen it through their eyes and since

489
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,720
that's pretty much impossible um

490
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:24,880
how how yeah how can you well it also

491
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:26,240
means even if you do see it through

492
00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:28,000
their eyes it doesn't mean it's real it

493
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:29,519
doesn't mean it actually happened i mean

494
00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:32,160
that's people who have delusions to them

495
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:34,240
a delusion is not a delusion it's it's a

496
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,800
it's it's perceived as being real

497
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:38,639
um so no you can't experience things

498
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:39,920
through other people's eyes like that

499
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:42,000
look i like i've said in my in my in my

500
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,800
basic uh bit of philosophy maynard 101

501
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:46,720
here the tibet the tibetan book of the

502
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:49,600
dead is a beautiful thing but there's no

503
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:51,199
no evidence that it's actually real but

504
00:16:54,150 --> 00:16:52,399
it's still a very beautiful thing

505
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:54,160
richard i think you have to be dead to

506
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:56,639
read it may not

507
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:58,480
oh look we're still out on the lawn here

508
00:17:01,749 --> 00:17:00,240
and this is my third time this is the

509
00:17:03,430 --> 00:17:01,759
third parakon here and here's the guy

510
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:03,440
puts the whole thing on alex how are you

511
00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:06,000
i'm good how are you i'm just fine i was

512
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:08,000
really good to i i enjoyed that

513
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:09,360
discussion group we had there i think it

514
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:11,120
blew richard's wig a little bit there i

515
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:12,559
flipped his toupee a bit there because

516
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:13,760
that's the kind of thing i normally hear

517
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:16,640
on on podcast bit mysterious universe or

518
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:18,880
the higher side chat i really found that

519
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:20,319
uh fascinating in there it was good to

520
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:21,839
hear people say those things out loud

521
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:23,439
because it's good to have a paranormal

522
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,520
conference like this and uh i really

523
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:27,679
enjoyed it and what what this year is

524
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:30,000
what's been different about 2016 well

525
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,919
this year you actually got the a taste

526
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,200
of what's different we're doing a lot

527
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,600
more panels a lot more discussions

528
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,440
collaborative stuff so it's not just

529
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:39,840
your regular get up and talk at the

530
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:41,760
front of the room it's uh you know

531
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:43,440
discussions questions

532
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:46,480
i almost said as a meeting of of not you

533
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:48,080
know your village elders to discuss

534
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:49,840
experiences and theories and research

535
00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:52,080
into all sorts of paranormal phenomena

536
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:54,080
last year you had travis walton here and

537
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:56,720
an abductee who's the star this year oh

538
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:58,240
well they're all stars made out of

539
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:59,200
course

540
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:01,120
but travis is pretty special he was he

541
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:02,960
is indeed um we've got a few

542
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:04,320
international guests this year probably

543
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:07,039
the two most well-known uh brian carnell

544
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:09,760
from haunted collector and paul bradford

545
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:12,000
from ghost hunters international both of

546
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:13,440
them focusing on two very different

547
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,360
things paul moore the equipment and

548
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:17,440
brian moore like the philosophy behind

549
00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:19,760
paranormal investigation this is also a

550
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:21,440
great meeting place for the ghost

551
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,960
hunters from all around australia too so

552
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:24,240
have you had many groups here again as

553
00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:26,240
usual like last year oh yes they're all

554
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:28,000
out in force with their t-shirts and

555
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:30,400
jackets all branded uh you know a little

556
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:31,840
less violent than a bikey gang but

557
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:33,200
they're all here

558
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:34,640
and what's been the most interesting one

559
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:36,160
you've attended oh what's the one you

560
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:38,000
thought oh okay this would be like a

561
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:39,600
medium event and it's gone really big

562
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:40,640
the one that you thought went better

563
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:43,360
than yeah look last night we had a

564
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:45,280
uh another

565
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:47,200
a talk and discussion it was called go

566
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:48,640
back to sleep there's nothing under your

567
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:50,640
bed and it was presented by a

568
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:52,320
psychologist from melbourne talking

569
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:55,039
about children's paranormal experience

570
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,840
one how to be that

571
00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:00,000
supportive

572
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:02,559
ear to them and you know to help them

573
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:03,840
through whatever they're experiencing

574
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,240
without dismissing it but also to look

575
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:08,640
at the mental health side of it as well

576
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:11,039
which i i mean i spent most of the time

577
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,960
and it was fascinating well yes that is

578
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:14,640
because that's such a difficult issue

579
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:16,480
because uh you know

580
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:17,600
you know you could be all in on the

581
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:19,120
anomaly but you think oh hang on there

582
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:20,799
might be something you know so maybe we

583
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:22,160
need to seek professional help that sort

584
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:23,600
of thing yeah and she was very well

585
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:25,360
balanced with that she came at she's a

586
00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:26,880
psychologist she works with children in

587
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:29,840
trauma um so she sees you know mental

588
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:31,679
health issues and not emerging but also

589
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:34,160
there is this thing that you know um

590
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:35,440
people who work with children say that

591
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:38,640
they do have experiences and how do you

592
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:40,400
it's not so much about validating it

593
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:41,679
it's guiding them through them so they

594
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:43,520
don't you know think they're crazy or

595
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:45,360
alone or whatever whether it's true or

596
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:47,919
not it's just about being there for them

597
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:50,320
and how far out are you into planning

598
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:52,160
next year's already oh look i've always

599
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:54,320
got ideas brewing yeah look actually you

600
00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:56,080
could um because there hasn't been a lot

601
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:57,280
of this in recent years and you've been

602
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:59,200
doing it some other people been doing it

603
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:01,440
is the paranormal conference industry in

604
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:03,760
australia picking up or not well i hope

605
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:05,280
so we've seen um

606
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:06,799
a growth from the first year to the

607
00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:08,240
second year and then we've held it so

608
00:20:12,150 --> 00:20:10,000
it's been consistent so we had the same

609
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:12,160
amount of numbers as last year and i

610
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:13,600
hope next year we can either hit the

611
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:16,080
same or more so it is becoming more

612
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:18,000
known as an annual event my one anyway

613
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:19,679
and i am seeing other events which i

614
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,520
hope i played a part in you know

615
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,360
bringing that community alive but yeah i

616
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:24,880
think it's getting getting bigger in

617
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:26,240
that way we're talking to each other a

618
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:28,400
lot more and look i know that there's an

619
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:29,679
element missing from your conference

620
00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:30,880
that i kind of i kind of like the

621
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:32,240
element that's missing that is the raise

622
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:33,760
your vibrations crowd like you haven't

623
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:36,080
got the the ultra hippie spiritual

624
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:37,200
people here which which you've got a

625
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:39,039
legitimate part of the paranormal

626
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:40,480
community but yeah you haven't got that

627
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:42,000
bit it's more like people kind of

628
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:43,919
looking around for stuff in your one

629
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:46,480
yeah yeah look i think that though that

630
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:48,400
crowd has plenty of other events they

631
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,720
can go to or respect to them but our

632
00:20:55,029 --> 00:20:52,720
paracon is about the exploration of

633
00:20:57,909 --> 00:20:55,039
ideas and theories it's about unpacking

634
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:57,919
a discussion um it's not so much about

635
00:21:02,230 --> 00:20:59,919
connecting to you whatever you know it's

636
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:02,240
about having a real life chat between

637
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:04,320
people and of course at any conference

638
00:21:07,990 --> 00:21:05,360
it doesn't matter whether you're going

639
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:08,000
to a cosplay or a sci-fi or a shatner

640
00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:09,679
conference there's always some sort of

641
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:11,200
uh there's always like something

642
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:12,159
controversial what's been the

643
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:13,360
controversial thing that might have

644
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:14,880
emerged this weekend that maybe you

645
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:17,120
weren't expecting oh this weekend we had

646
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:18,559
a lot i don't know there must have been

647
00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:20,320
something in the air but we lost a few

648
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:21,440
speakers

649
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:22,640
just before

650
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:25,280
all legitimate recent reasons like

651
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,159
health issues or family dramas um so

652
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:30,480
that's been the hiccup this year

653
00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:32,720
nothing too controversial nothing too

654
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,400
out there i think people are actually

655
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:36,799
were geared up to hit old richard

656
00:21:41,350 --> 00:21:39,600
saunders talk with a bit more um gusto

657
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:41,360
but they saw that he was very fair and

658
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:43,039
balanced so look if i hadn't been

659
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:44,240
working i would have been there i would

660
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:45,360
have i would have been at the back game

661
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:46,240
boo

662
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:47,760
yeah you would have been to wind him up

663
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:49,840
you would have been the heckler yeah but

664
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:51,840
they yeah i think they probably saw him

665
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:53,919
on the bill and thought that it might go

666
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:56,000
you know the ultra skeptic way but it

667
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:57,840
wasn't and they really enjoyed it and of

668
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:59,520
course the skeptic's listening going ah

669
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:00,799
look it's a whole lot of hogwash this

670
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:02,640
guy's just putting rubbish in into

671
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,159
people's minds there what would you say

672
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:05,840
to them i'd say come along and

673
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:07,760
experience it for yourself if you you

674
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:10,080
know um that's what parakon is about as

675
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:12,159
well you know come and chat to people

676
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,400
because if you're a true skeptic you are

677
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:17,200
also looking for the answer whether it's

678
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,000
real life or paranormal or whatever so

679
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:22,320
come and unpack it come and have a chat

680
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:23,679
oh look you've got to grab people when

681
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:26,400
you can at paracon 2016. i is this area

682
00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:27,360
okay here

683
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:29,120
we are in an area where we are assured

684
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:30,720
that and unattended drunks will be

685
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:32,480
removed so we'll keep moving so people

686
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:34,240
don't because these signs are everywhere

687
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:36,320
now uh beth explain to us what you're

688
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:37,280
going to be talking about today at

689
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:38,799
paragon um i'm going to be talking about

690
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:40,320
the similarities between paranormal

691
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:43,120
experiences and mental health illnesses

692
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,840
now a lot of people uh would be look

693
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:47,200
most people would go well they're

694
00:22:51,110 --> 00:22:48,640
obviously different and a lot of people

695
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:51,120
would go well yeah the same thing so do

696
00:22:55,510 --> 00:22:53,280
people mainly fall into that camp

697
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:55,520
yeah it's a very very very tricky and

698
00:22:58,470 --> 00:22:57,120
gray area especially is investigated

699
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,480
because we're not qualified to determine

700
00:23:01,430 --> 00:23:00,159
anyone having mental illnesses but

701
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:01,440
knowing the signs and symptoms can

702
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,000
sometimes help so yeah i mean what is

703
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:06,400
the most obvious red flags if someone is

704
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:07,840
having an experience that people should

705
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:09,360
go oh maybe i should refer them to

706
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:11,679
somebody gosh it's more audible and

707
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:13,360
visual phenomena so people who actually

708
00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:14,880
that's the most common that's reported

709
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:17,200
but the the people who experience

710
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:19,440
schizophrenia tend to have that as um

711
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,480
because they have a lot of different

712
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:22,640
types hallucinations can be all five

713
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:24,559
senses not just audible as well as

714
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:25,919
visual twos that seems to be the most

715
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:28,720
common reported as such wow and is it

716
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:30,880
best for someone who knows the person to

717
00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:32,880
have a go at this or a stranger because

718
00:23:35,830 --> 00:23:34,240
someone who knows a person might be a

719
00:23:37,029 --> 00:23:35,840
little bit too close to them to look for

720
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:37,039
these signs

721
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:38,640
yeah it's better when it's a stranger

722
00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:40,000
but then again you also run into the

723
00:23:43,270 --> 00:23:41,280
fact that someone may actually not

724
00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:43,280
divulge their previous history as well

725
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:44,559
and you don't actually have well

726
00:23:47,909 --> 00:23:45,679
technically you don't have the right to

727
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:47,919
ask you can try but it's not you know

728
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:49,360
permitted no one has to give you that

729
00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:51,919
information it's privacy so yeah and

730
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:53,120
what's the most difficult question

731
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:54,480
you've got from the floor when you're

732
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:55,919
presenting this talk well this is the

733
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:57,600
first time i've done it so i'm i'm

734
00:24:00,549 --> 00:23:59,039
raring to go

735
00:24:01,510 --> 00:24:00,559
i'm ready for it well yeah how much

736
00:24:03,029 --> 00:24:01,520
study have you got to do for this

737
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:03,039
because this is not exactly a small

738
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:04,880
field of study yeah it is well you're

739
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:06,960
very very true it's um i've actually i'm

740
00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:08,960
a first aid mental health certified so

741
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:10,480
that's the same as first day but it's

742
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:12,320
actually mental health first aid so

743
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:14,080
that's what spurred on and obviously

744
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:16,080
with similarities that we came across in

745
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:17,520
in the actual course i thought jesus you

746
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:18,559
could actually think this is also

747
00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:19,600
someone experiencing something

748
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,600
paranormal how are we going to determine

749
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:23,600
what you know which is what look i know

750
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:24,880
you've got a set up here so i won't keep

751
00:24:28,149 --> 00:24:27,039
you too much longer but if someone look

752
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:28,159
at me as someone like myself i have

753
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:29,840
panic attacks all sorts of if i'm paying

754
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:32,080
attack or someone's having an episode of

755
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:33,919
some sort as what's the first aid thing

756
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:35,440
you can do for yourself i know people

757
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:37,120
talk about cognitive therapy but the

758
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:38,159
thing about that is you've got to be

759
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:40,000
aware and that's that is a big problem

760
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:41,440
with cognitive therapy but what is the

761
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:42,799
best first aid thing you can do for

762
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,840
yourself if you think you're having a

763
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:45,840
moment of any sort reach out to somebody

764
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:47,120
and speak to them tell them that you're

765
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:48,799
actually feeling the way you're feeling

766
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:50,159
and that you're actually uncomfortable

767
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:51,840
that your heart's racing that you're

768
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:53,360
starting to shake which can be symptoms

769
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:54,640
of someone having a panic attack or

770
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:56,480
anxiety and to actually take them to a

771
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:58,000
place where they feel calmed down you

772
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:59,200
know that give them a glass of water and

773
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,400
just listen to them

774
00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:02,400
look i i find and this is again a

775
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:03,600
totally uh

776
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,600
layman's kind of thing that it's always

777
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:07,200
good to do something that's incompatible

778
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:08,559
with anxiety or something that's

779
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:10,400
incompatible with depression one of

780
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:12,400
those things is helping other people

781
00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:14,080
that is a good one and i don't mean

782
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,440
throw yourself into charity work but

783
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:17,120
just ring someone else and help them or

784
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:18,799
something like that that really can pull

785
00:25:23,350 --> 00:25:20,960
you out of your own little black tunnel

786
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:23,360
you got into absolutely 100 i couldn't

787
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:24,559
have said it better i mean you can't

788
00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:26,320
always find it but it's worth a go you

789
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:28,240
know it's very true very mellow and

790
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:30,000
neighbor's lawn yes yeah exactly that's

791
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:31,919
it get moving yes get active and where

792
00:25:34,789 --> 00:25:33,440
can people find you online to maybe talk

793
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,799
about this or see what maybe what you've

794
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:36,559
done today yep my website which is

795
00:25:39,679 --> 00:25:57,590
thank you thank you

796
00:26:02,230 --> 00:25:59,990
is an award-winning weekly science show

797
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:02,240
in french hosted by a bunch of crazy

798
00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:03,840
enthusiasts

799
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:06,320
we are convinced that the greatest ideas

800
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:08,559
in science are quite easy to grasp as

801
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:09,840
long as they they're presented with

802
00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:12,640
passion using a vocabulary common to all

803
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:15,039
curious minds whatever their academic

804
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:16,960
background if any

805
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:19,039
we don't understand french yet but it's

806
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:20,320
never too late

807
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:22,000
all our stories have a written

808
00:26:25,909 --> 00:26:23,760
transcript on the website and people

809
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:25,919
from all around the world are using our

810
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:28,559
content to learn malia's language

811
00:26:33,870 --> 00:26:31,200
our topics range from zero to infinity

812
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:33,880
from evolution to artificial life from

813
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:35,679
electromagnetism to the science of

814
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:36,960
introverts

815
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:39,440
we just love mathematics science

816
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:43,039
critical thinking so do you want to join

817
00:26:46,590 --> 00:26:44,799
you can subscribe to the podcast for

818
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:46,600
free from our website

819
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:49,279
podcastscience.fm that's in one word you

820
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:52,000
also find us on itunes and soundcloud

821
00:27:16,710 --> 00:26:54,799
see you soon hopefully at

822
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:18,710
hello skeptic zone listeners this is

823
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:21,279
sharon hill of doubtfulnews.com

824
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:23,039
one of the special pages on doubtful

825
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,960
news is called the media guide to

826
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:26,880
skepticism which was done by a

827
00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:28,559
cooperative group of experienced

828
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:30,640
skeptics with the purpose to provide a

829
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:32,559
clear easy to read guide about the

830
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:35,120
skeptical viewpoint as subscribed to by

831
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:36,880
many who might call themselves skeptics

832
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:38,640
or critical thinkers

833
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:40,960
to distinguish practical skepticism from

834
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:43,200
the popular use of the phrase i'm

835
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:44,720
skeptical

836
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:46,720
and from those who claim to be skeptics

837
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,240
regarding some well-established

838
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:51,120
conclusions such as climate change

839
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:53,039
this document though designed for

840
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,279
journalists and reporters is also an

841
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:57,120
excellent primer to orient anyone in

842
00:28:04,789 --> 00:27:59,600
skeptical thought and activism what's in

843
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:07,430
what is skepticism

844
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:09,840
skepticism is an approach to evaluating

845
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:12,080
claims that emphasizes evidence and

846
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:14,320
applies tools of science

847
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:16,399
skepticism is most often applied to

848
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:18,640
extraordinary claims those that refute

849
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:20,720
the current consensus view

850
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:23,279
the skeptical process considers evidence

851
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,679
obtained by systematic observations and

852
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,840
reason the conclusion that is reached at

853
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:29,679
the end of this skeptical process is

854
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:32,080
provisional because additional or better

855
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:33,679
evidence may come along that points

856
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:35,760
towards a more suitable explanation

857
00:28:40,149 --> 00:28:37,600
here's an example

858
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,159
mr x tells us that a new pill greatly

859
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:42,720
improves his memory this claim if true

860
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:44,640
is important and extraordinary

861
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:46,159
so it would be fitting to apply

862
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:48,159
skepticism to this claim

863
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:50,000
we would want to see evidence that his

864
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:52,159
memory is improved and that the pill was

865
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:53,760
responsible for that

866
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:55,840
we consider alternative explanations

867
00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:58,000
that could explain why mr x would say

868
00:29:02,389 --> 00:29:00,080
the new pill improves his memory

869
00:29:04,549 --> 00:29:02,399
he may be mistaken he might be going

870
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:04,559
through a less stressful time of life he

871
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:06,240
wants to feel like he spent his money

872
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,720
wisely on the pills he was paid to

873
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:10,799
promote the pills etc

874
00:29:15,029 --> 00:29:12,399
good evidence that his claim has

875
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:15,039
validity would be quality research

876
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:17,840
results multiple studies that show many

877
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:20,159
who take the pill displayed a measurable

878
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:22,640
improvement in memory and preferably we

879
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:24,159
would be provided with the plausible

880
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:25,919
explanation for how the pill works to

881
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:27,440
improve memory

882
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:30,080
if the manufacturer of mr x's pills do

883
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:31,600
not have well-controlled studies of

884
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:33,200
large groups of people that show that

885
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:35,279
the product actually works

886
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:37,279
we can't just accept his word that they

887
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:40,320
work as they say because alternative

888
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:42,399
explanations are more likely

889
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:44,720
the more extraordinary the claim the

890
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:46,799
stronger the evidence must be to support

891
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:47,440
it

892
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:49,360
if a claim is made that would require us

893
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,000
to revise or overturn well-established

894
00:29:57,669 --> 00:29:54,720
knowledge we should be very suspicious

895
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,679
and ask for a greater degree of evidence

896
00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:59,760
here's another example

897
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:01,760
psychics claim that they are able to

898
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:03,600
predict events

899
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:05,360
that would not be in accordance with

900
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:07,039
what we have observed about the human

901
00:30:12,389 --> 00:30:08,960
mind it would not correspond to

902
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:12,399
well-tested ideas in biology and physics

903
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:14,480
it doesn't make sense in terms of what

904
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:16,799
we know so in order to justify

905
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:19,200
discarding all we already know the

906
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:21,120
claimant must have a great deal of solid

907
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:23,919
evidence that withstand scrutiny

908
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:26,480
these are cases of applying scientific

909
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:28,000
skepticism

910
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:30,640
skeptics value contributions of science

911
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:33,120
but also those of logic and math that

912
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:35,440
lead towards the best explanation

913
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:37,440
skepticism can be applied to subjects

914
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:40,080
such as history art and literature as

915
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:42,240
well by using critical thinking and

916
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:44,640
respect for the evidence for any claims

917
00:30:54,870 --> 00:30:52,230
what does it mean to be a skeptic

918
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:54,880
you will often hear i'm a skeptic or i'm

919
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:57,279
skeptical from people who are not sure

920
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:00,240
about or who doubt some concept

921
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:03,120
that is a common casual use of the term

922
00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:05,679
simply calling oneself a skeptic is not

923
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:07,919
the same as practicing it

924
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:10,000
it's easy to doubt things everyone is

925
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:11,919
skeptical about something

926
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:14,080
good skepticism involves understanding

927
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:16,320
why one might or might not doubt the

928
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:17,600
claim

929
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:19,919
a skeptic subscribes to a number of

930
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,760
tenants

931
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:23,600
respect for the evidence

932
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:25,760
the application of reason to evidence is

933
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:27,679
the best method we have to obtain

934
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:30,240
reliable knowledge respect for methods

935
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:33,120
conclusions and consensus of science

936
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:34,960
science is a particular way of obtaining

937
00:31:38,789 --> 00:31:37,120
information that is designed to reduce

938
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:38,799
the chances of coming to an incorrect

939
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:40,159
conclusion

940
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:42,480
using a scientific process will minimize

941
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:45,440
errors but not eliminate them entirely

942
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:47,760
so skeptics are often vigorous advocates

943
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,559
of science in medicine in schools and

944
00:31:55,509 --> 00:31:53,039
for informing policy decisions

945
00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:55,519
fake junk and pseudoscience is called

946
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,799
out as a ruse

947
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:58,720
logic and math are also components of

948
00:32:01,590 --> 00:32:00,080
science that can be valuable in

949
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:01,600
assessing claims

950
00:32:05,669 --> 00:32:04,000
preference for natural not supernatural

951
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:05,679
explanations

952
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:07,679
natural laws give us rational boundaries

953
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:10,159
in our quest to determine explanations

954
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:12,240
miracles are an example of using a

955
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:15,679
supernatural agent a god saint or angel

956
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:18,480
who operates outside natural laws as

957
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:20,240
part of the explanation

958
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:21,760
a skeptic will look for natural

959
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:23,919
explanation that does not call for a

960
00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:26,320
supernatural unproven and possibly

961
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:29,279
unprovable entity to be included

962
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:30,960
promotion of reason and critical

963
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:32,000
thinking

964
00:32:35,669 --> 00:32:33,679
many skeptics are good at identifying

965
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:35,679
mistakes and arguments and reasoning

966
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:37,840
awareness of how we are fooled

967
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:40,399
people routinely fool themselves and are

968
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:42,720
fooled by others this is most commonly

969
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:44,960
seen in our over-reliance on our senses

970
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:48,159
and memory for example i know what i saw

971
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:51,039
or i remember it like it was yesterday

972
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,960
skeptics are wary of eyewitness

973
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:54,880
testimony because observation is

974
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:57,760
fallible and memory is malleable

975
00:33:02,389 --> 00:33:00,080
stories of events even from trustworthy

976
00:33:05,269 --> 00:33:02,399
people make for very poor evidence on

977
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:05,279
their own even collectively anecdotes

978
00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:06,960
don't tell us much about the validity of

979
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:08,000
the claim

980
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,000
skeptics also understand that people

981
00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:12,559
tend to look for remember and favor the

982
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:14,399
evidence that supports their preferred

983
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:22,230
what skepticism isn't

984
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:24,640
this section contains possibly the most

985
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:27,120
important things to know about skeptics

986
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:28,880
there are many misconceptions about what

987
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:31,200
it means to be a skeptic not everyone

988
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:33,360
who says they are skeptical are applying

989
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:34,960
skepticism

990
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:36,720
skeptic is not the same as cynic or

991
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,760
disbeliever good skeptics do not dismiss

992
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:41,600
claims out of hand

993
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:43,600
the skeptic is often seen as the

994
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:46,159
debunker the downer or the balloon

995
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:47,200
buster

996
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:48,799
it may appear that way for those who are

997
00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:50,720
very attached to certain concepts to

998
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:53,360
which skepticism is being applied such

999
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:56,720
as existence of ghosts bigfoot or ufos

1000
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:59,200
skeptics aren't skeptical of everything

1001
00:34:02,149 --> 00:34:00,240
either

1002
00:34:04,470 --> 00:34:02,159
in classical greek skepticism the

1003
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:04,480
individual did not commit to stating

1004
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:06,640
knowledge everything was doubted there

1005
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:08,240
was no certainty

1006
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:10,800
that's not a popular stance today

1007
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:12,800
when we speak of modern skepticism we

1008
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:14,560
are talking about those who seek the

1009
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:16,560
conclusion best supported by current

1010
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:19,040
evidence and reason

1011
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:22,079
skeptic does not equal atheist

1012
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:25,520
many skeptics are atheists but not all

1013
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:27,839
skepticism is a process of evaluating

1014
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:30,399
claims not a set of conclusions

1015
00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:32,639
skeptics are a diverse group so lack of

1016
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:35,760
religious beliefs should not be assumed

1017
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:37,839
scientific skepticism is applied only to

1018
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:40,960
testable claims such as prayer heals

1019
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:43,040
not to untestable claims such as the

1020
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:46,159
existence of god who is supernatural

1021
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:48,639
is there a god is a question outside the

1022
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:51,359
realm of science however philosophical

1023
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,520
skepticism can be invoked in considering

1024
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:56,159
claims about the supernatural

1025
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:58,320
skeptic does not mean denialist or

1026
00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:59,440
truther

1027
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:01,760
a practicing skeptic is informed by the

1028
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:03,839
scientific consensus

1029
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,920
so-called climate skeptics are not

1030
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:07,760
practicing skepticism when they doubt

1031
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:10,560
global warming based on selective belief

1032
00:35:14,829 --> 00:35:12,560
and by ignoring the results that science

1033
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:14,839
has given us to this point

1034
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:18,160
denialists of climate change evolution

1035
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:20,320
conventional medicine etc

1036
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:22,240
reject science that does not support

1037
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:23,680
their view

1038
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:26,160
truthers insist that the real truth has

1039
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:28,880
not been revealed and instead put forth

1040
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:30,960
the explanation that a conspiracy is

1041
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,000
afoot

1042
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:34,560
these stances do not give fair weight to

1043
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:37,599
well-established knowledge we have

1044
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:40,720
skepticism is not a religion skepticism

1045
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,880
doesn't tell you what to think it tells

1046
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:44,880
you how you should think about something

1047
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:46,880
to get the conclusion that has the best

1048
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,200
possibility of being true

1049
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:51,359
skepticism may not always be the best

1050
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:53,599
approach to decisions at the moment

1051
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:55,920
sometimes decisions based on emotion can

1052
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:57,760
feel like the right thing to do

1053
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:00,160
so applying skepticism to everything in

1054
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:02,480
life is not always the best policy there

1055
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:04,880
may be other factors to consider

1056
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:07,680
skepticism is important

1057
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:10,079
why use skepticism as the process to

1058
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:13,200
evaluate claims critically evaluating

1059
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:15,119
claims for flaws mistakes and

1060
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:17,520
inaccuracies lessens the potential that

1061
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:19,119
you will believe something that isn't

1062
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:20,240
true

1063
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:22,160
skepticism and critical thinking can be

1064
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:23,200
applied

1065
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:25,599
in everyday life where an invalid claim

1066
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:27,680
might have serious effect on you or

1067
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,200
people around you

1068
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:30,960
such as in consideration of a medical

1069
00:36:36,550 --> 00:36:33,440
treatment a financial investment a

1070
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:36,560
consumer product or life choices

1071
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:38,480
proponents of a claim will frequently

1072
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:41,440
say you can't prove it's not true

1073
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:44,000
that's a ridiculous statement

1074
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:45,680
it's not up to the skeptic to show that

1075
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:48,079
an extraordinary claim isn't true

1076
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:49,520
it's up to those making the claim to

1077
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:51,599
provide evidence and reasons why it is

1078
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:52,640
true

1079
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:54,560
we must have evidence that a person did

1080
00:37:03,430 --> 00:36:56,880
commit a crime for example not prove

1081
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:06,150
what do skeptics do

1082
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:07,680
skeptics have a loose community

1083
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:10,960
consisting of publications websites and

1084
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:14,320
online forums organizations and events

1085
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:16,160
skeptics are all around the world

1086
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,320
organized into casual and formal groups

1087
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:20,320
and associations

1088
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:22,640
it is a community made up of people with

1089
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:24,720
varying backgrounds ideas goals

1090
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:27,520
communication styles and skill sets it

1091
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:30,000
also gets very fluid at the edges you

1092
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:32,560
might be a skeptic and not even know it

1093
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:34,400
many people don't self-identify as a

1094
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:36,480
skeptic but selectively follow the

1095
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:39,359
practices of skepticism in their lives

1096
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:41,359
some people are disinclined to take on

1097
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:44,079
any labels or join a group

1098
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:46,240
many skeptics enjoy the fringe subject

1099
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:48,480
areas they like solving mysteries and

1100
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:50,320
appreciate being around people who think

1101
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:52,880
as they do or who argue rationally when

1102
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:54,320
they don't agree

1103
00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:56,320
some skeptics are activists who promote

1104
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:58,160
critical thinking and skepticism in

1105
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:00,240
their communities and the public as

1106
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:02,480
individuals or as part of a local or

1107
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:06,160
national organized groups and online

1108
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:08,000
some of the topics skeptics are involved

1109
00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:10,720
in are science education alternative

1110
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:13,280
medical treatments the paranormal

1111
00:38:17,349 --> 00:38:15,680
dubious consumer products and services

1112
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:17,359
hoaxes and scams

1113
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:19,200
ufos and aliens

1114
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,000
monsters in folklore superstition and

1115
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:24,880
why people believe strange things

1116
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:26,720
those who represent skepticism in the

1117
00:38:31,270 --> 00:38:28,960
public sphere are happy to provide a

1118
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:31,280
science and reason-based viewpoint for

1119
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:32,640
the media

1120
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:33,920
the backgrounds of those in the

1121
00:38:38,470 --> 00:38:36,640
skeptical community are varied many

1122
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:38,480
participants in the skeptical community

1123
00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:41,280
are experts in particular areas like the

1124
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:44,320
paranormal medicine cryptozoology

1125
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:46,400
history archaeology

1126
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:49,920
textual analysis linguistics psychology

1127
00:39:02,310 --> 00:38:59,270
the media guide to skepticism also

1128
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:02,320
includes a list of skeptical resources

1129
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:04,560
organizations that have as their mission

1130
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:07,359
a goal to promote scientific skepticism

1131
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:09,920
a list of skeptic print publications and

1132
00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:12,000
a list of famous skeptics in modern

1133
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:12,960
times

1134
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:14,560
as well as references for additional

1135
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:16,960
reading and acknowledgments of those who

1136
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:19,040
help put this guide together

1137
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:20,640
check it out by clicking on the link in

1138
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:23,280
the menu at doubtfulnews.com

1139
00:39:27,589 --> 00:39:25,359
download and print it to distribute to

1140
00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:27,599
reporters teachers

1141
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:30,160
friends and at public events

1142
00:39:35,190 --> 00:39:32,800
in short tell everyone why it's

1143
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:35,200
important to be skeptical

1144
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:36,400
this has been sharon hill from

1145
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:56,470
did you see that ufo sighting that made

1146
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:57,520
the news

1147
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:58,960
what did that latest study about

1148
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:01,119
alternative treatments really say

1149
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:03,040
is this photo making the rounds real or

1150
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:04,160
a hoax

1151
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,839
duffle news is a unique website

1152
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:07,599
featuring news about pseudoscience the

1153
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:09,839
paranormal anomalies and questionable

1154
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:12,240
claims framed with the skeptical view

1155
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:14,560
come visit doubtfulnews.com every day

1156
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:16,480
for news about cryptozoology

1157
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:19,760
conspiracies shams scams and more

1158
00:40:23,990 --> 00:40:22,480
follow us on twitter at doubtfulnews

1159
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:24,000
critical thinking is essential in

1160
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:25,760
assessing today's news

1161
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:27,760
duffle news helps you decide can you

1162
00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:46,470
from the website of australian skeptics

1163
00:40:51,510 --> 00:40:48,960
skeptics.com.u

1164
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:51,520
legal action against fake cancer

1165
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:52,480
sufferer

1166
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:55,280
bell gibson by tim bendum published on

1167
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,240
the 6th of may 2016. consumer affairs

1168
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:00,480
victoria is preparing to take a legal

1169
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:03,520
action against fake cancer sufferer bell

1170
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:04,480
gibson

1171
00:41:09,270 --> 00:41:07,040
following an in-depth investigation into

1172
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:09,280
alleged contraventions of australian

1173
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:11,760
consumer law the case not only involves

1174
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:14,319
false statements in social media and

1175
00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:16,000
duping followers with claims of

1176
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:18,400
donations to charity but also the

1177
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:20,560
gullibility of her book publishers who

1178
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:22,880
never asked her to substantiate her

1179
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:25,760
claims the alleged contraventions relate

1180
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:28,640
to false claims by gibson and her

1181
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,599
company inca man road nominees formerly

1182
00:41:35,910 --> 00:41:34,000
known as bell gibson propriety limited

1183
00:41:39,109 --> 00:41:35,920
of which annabelle gibson is the sole

1184
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,119
director concerning her diagnosis with

1185
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:41,760
terminal brain cancer her rejection of

1186
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:43,920
conventional cancer treatments in favor

1187
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:47,520
of natural remedies and the donation of

1188
00:41:52,470 --> 00:41:49,920
proceeds to various charities media

1189
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:52,480
reports suggest she may be subject to

1190
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:55,200
fines of over a million dollars gibson

1191
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:58,560
became a celebrity when she claimed to

1192
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:00,720
have overcome malignant brain cancer

1193
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:03,520
with alternative treatments meditation

1194
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:06,079
and herbalism she chronicled her battle

1195
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:09,119
with cancer on the blog the whole pantry

1196
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:11,680
which spawned an app and a recipe book

1197
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:13,119
of the same name

1198
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:16,000
the problem was she never had cancer and

1199
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:18,720
her thousands of followers were duped

1200
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,520
doubts about her claims had surfaced

1201
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:23,839
after she failed to deliver a promised

1202
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:27,680
300 000 donation to charity based on her

1203
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:30,880
sales quote none of it's true and quote

1204
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:33,280
gibson eventually admitted to the

1205
00:42:37,829 --> 00:42:35,920
australian women's weekly magazine

1206
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:37,839
in what has been criticized as a plea

1207
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:40,000
for understanding she told the magazine

1208
00:42:43,829 --> 00:42:40,960
quote

1209
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:43,839
i am still jumping between what i think

1210
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:46,720
i know and what is reality i have lived

1211
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:49,040
with it and i'm not really there yet end

1212
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:51,280
quote others quickly distanced

1213
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:53,839
themselves from gibson including penguin

1214
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:56,319
australia the publisher of her cookbook

1215
00:43:01,910 --> 00:42:59,119
apple which was to run her app on its

1216
00:43:05,109 --> 00:43:01,920
new watch and elle magazine that had

1217
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:05,119
named her quote the most inspiring woman

1218
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:07,680
you've met this year end quote at the

1219
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:09,920
time of writing the app is still listed

1220
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:12,800
for sale on google play consumer affairs

1221
00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:15,200
victoria director simon cohen said

1222
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:18,160
penguin had willingly cooperated with a

1223
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:20,640
concurrent investigation that examined

1224
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:22,960
whether the company had also contravened

1225
00:43:28,309 --> 00:43:25,839
the consumer law the company has agreed

1226
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:28,319
to an enforceable undertaking

1227
00:43:33,109 --> 00:43:30,480
acknowledging that it had not required

1228
00:43:35,190 --> 00:43:33,119
gibson to substantiate her claims prior

1229
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:35,200
to the book's publication included in

1230
00:43:39,829 --> 00:43:37,520
the terms of the enforceable undertaking

1231
00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:39,839
is that penguin will make a thirty 000

1232
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:42,400
donation to the victorian consumer law

1233
00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:44,800
fund penguin must also enhance its

1234
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:46,880
compliance educating and training

1235
00:43:51,510 --> 00:43:49,359
program with a specific focus on

1236
00:43:53,829 --> 00:43:51,520
ensuring all claims about medical

1237
00:43:56,230 --> 00:43:53,839
conditions are substantiated and that

1238
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,240
statements about natural therapies are

1239
00:44:02,470 --> 00:43:58,960
accompanied by a prominent warning

1240
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:02,480
notice quote this is an important step

1241
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:05,280
to ensuring that consumers receive only

1242
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:07,520
verified information and are not

1243
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:10,160
deceived particularly where serious

1244
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:12,079
matters of health and medical treatment

1245
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:15,119
are concerned and quote cohen said

1246
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:17,839
incoming is in liquidation so consumer

1247
00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:20,240
affairs victoria has applied for leave

1248
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:22,400
to commence proceedings in the federal

1249
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:25,040
court of australia and that report comes

1250
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:26,960
to us from the australian skeptics at

1251
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:29,200
skeptics.com.eu

1252
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:31,280
written by tim menden published on the

1253
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:52,230
hi this is cassandra president of the

1254
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:54,800
brisbane skeptic society in sunny

1255
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:56,960
queensland which well by sydney

1256
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:00,480
standards is the north side of australia

1257
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:02,880
i'd like to invite you to join us at one

1258
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:06,319
of our many events not only do we have

1259
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:08,480
weekly social gatherings all over

1260
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:11,119
brisbane and monthly lectures we get

1261
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:13,520
along so well that once or twice a year

1262
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:16,079
we escape our city confines in brisbane

1263
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:19,599
and go traveling together

1264
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:21,200
we're always on the lookout for new

1265
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:24,960
ideas new perspectives and definitely

1266
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:27,920
new speakers want to find out more

1267
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:35,589
or search for brisbane skeptics society

1268
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:38,319
on facebook or twitter we hope to see

1269
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:51,109
on maynard.com dot a u ay u

1270
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:52,720
here on the skeptic zone it's time to

1271
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,040
welcome a guy who is a skeptic mr tim

1272
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:56,960
ferguson how are you tim i am very well

1273
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:59,280
i'm very very skeptical you can normally

1274
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:01,119
hear tim on planet maynard on bunga

1275
00:46:04,630 --> 00:46:03,119
bunga on the 28 episodes we've made but

1276
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:04,640
tim's here today to push a bit of a

1277
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:06,079
you've decided the skeptics have had it

1278
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:07,760
all their own way for far too long don't

1279
00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:09,520
you they certainly have and there's one

1280
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:11,520
thing that's sitting right in front of

1281
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:13,280
us it's a very long way but it's right

1282
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:16,480
in front of our noses mars the mars

1283
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:18,880
landings i got to ask you skeptics you

1284
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:20,480
were all like oh nothing happened we

1285
00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:22,800
didn't land on the moon no no no buzz

1286
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:25,680
aldrin punched me he punched me in the

1287
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:28,319
face just because i was being skeptical

1288
00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:30,880
and i gotta say the skeptics have never

1289
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:33,680
once as far as i've ever noticed

1290
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:36,079
and i've been looking mentioned one

1291
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:39,520
thing i know in my heart that the mars

1292
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:42,400
rover is bull twang of course

1293
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:45,040
extraordinary claims apparently

1294
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:46,880
apparently if you're really pushed

1295
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:48,800
require extraordinary evidence what is

1296
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:50,880
your extraordinary evidence that there's

1297
00:46:57,030 --> 00:46:54,160
no rover there tim the evidence is

1298
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:57,040
i can't see a rover also mars

1299
00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:00,319
is so far away and it's moving all the

1300
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:02,400
time you're gonna get a spaceship from

1301
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:05,200
here to there without any people on it

1302
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:07,520
even with human error you might have a

1303
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:08,960
chance if there was a person on the

1304
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:11,839
machine so you're going to program it in

1305
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:14,319
following the laws of newton which are

1306
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:16,319
dubious if you know anything about

1307
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:17,520
science

1308
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:19,359
i am suggesting

1309
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:22,240
not only that mars rover and all of its

1310
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:25,680
antecedents do not exist on mars but

1311
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,359
also the skeptics have dropped the mars

1312
00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:31,520
ball that's a fairly bold claim and of

1313
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:33,040
course just sitting across from us we

1314
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:34,640
have richard saunders yeah why aren't

1315
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:37,040
the skeptics saying something about this

1316
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:39,839
issue have you been paid hush money from

1317
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:42,079
big mars you've got the hand in the big

1318
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:44,079
mars pocket have you seen the nasa

1319
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,680
budget

1320
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:47,280
i don't think i feel like i'm in an

1321
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:49,119
episode of bunga bunga at the moment

1322
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:50,400
well it is a little bit like that it's a

1323
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:51,760
crossover episode that's what they call

1324
00:47:56,550 --> 00:47:53,920
it's like a crossover it's like when the

1325
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:56,560
gilmore girls visited the two kids from

1326
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:58,160
different strokes i think it's like when

1327
00:48:01,670 --> 00:47:59,760
the fonz went to visit laverne and

1328
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:01,680
shirley okay yeah that's pretty much it

1329
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:03,040
and we're like lenny and squiggy coming

1330
00:48:06,870 --> 00:48:04,800
through the door that's us so what about

1331
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:06,880
that mr skeptic well i haven't been to

1332
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:09,359
mars lately we're not skeptical about

1333
00:48:13,190 --> 00:48:11,359
that strangely enough you know

1334
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:13,200
maybe we should be but we're not so i've

1335
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:15,440
heard the skeptics talk about moon

1336
00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:17,440
conspiracies and try and debunk them

1337
00:48:20,309 --> 00:48:19,040
unsuccessfully no one ever mentions the

1338
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:20,319
mars one because the mask could just be

1339
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:21,760
a whole bunch of made up pictures that

1340
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:24,160
are artistically done and the group of

1341
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:25,599
people would be smaller than was

1342
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:27,440
required to fake the moon landing well

1343
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:29,920
i've seen the film the martian which

1344
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:32,480
they erroneously call a comedy i've seen

1345
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:34,800
the film the martian and i've got to say

1346
00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:37,520
the images in that film of the planet

1347
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:39,839
mars are way more sophisticated they're

1348
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:43,040
better than the clunky photographs of

1349
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:45,040
what's supposed to be mars from the

1350
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:48,240
rover which is barely someone's iphone

1351
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:50,240
taken out to alice springs well there's

1352
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:52,079
a reason for that but it's because the

1353
00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:54,079
martian rover pictures were actually in

1354
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:57,440
a studio sort of okay mediocrely done

1355
00:49:02,790 --> 00:49:00,400
but the martian the movie was shot on

1356
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,800
mars on location that's why now you're

1357
00:49:07,030 --> 00:49:04,880
talking sense which is the first sense

1358
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:07,040
i've heard you talk about this issue all

1359
00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:09,599
day i would like you to go and talk to

1360
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:11,760
your skeptical colleagues

1361
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:13,760
and tell them to lower their raised

1362
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:16,319
eyebrows and deal with the major

1363
00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:18,160
question which is

1364
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:20,800
rover is bull twang you've been

1365
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:24,240
listening to tim ferguson skeptic or get

1366
00:49:30,069 --> 00:49:25,920
under the house

1367
00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:46,309
hey you

1368
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:48,630
dr harriet hall md

1369
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:51,520
known to thousands as the skeptoc a

1370
00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:54,000
retired family physician and former air

1371
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:55,760
force flight surgeon

1372
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:58,079
she writes about medicine so-called

1373
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:00,480
complementary and alternative medicine

1374
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:04,160
science quackery and critical thinking

1375
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:06,720
harriet now has a free course a series

1376
00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:09,280
of 10 video lectures on science-based

1377
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:12,319
medicine and alternative medicine the

1378
00:50:17,390 --> 00:50:14,720
videos and an accompanying course guide

1379
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:17,400
can be found by following the link at

1380
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:20,240
skeptdoc.info or by visiting

1381
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:23,200
web.randy.org

1382
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:30,150
topics covered in the series are

1383
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:32,000
science-based medicine versus

1384
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:35,200
evidence-based medicine what is cam

1385
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:38,720
chiropractic acupuncture homeopathy

1386
00:50:43,109 --> 00:50:41,200
naturopathy and herbal medicine

1387
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:43,119
energy medicine miscellaneous

1388
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,480
alternatives pitfalls in research and

1389
00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:49,040
science-based medicine in the media and

1390
00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:50,800
politics

1391
00:50:55,109 --> 00:50:52,640
harriet covers each topic in a matter

1392
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:55,119
matter-of-fact no-nonsense way that's

1393
00:51:23,510 --> 00:50:57,680
sure to educate and entertain

1394
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:25,030
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1395
00:51:28,309 --> 00:51:26,640
zone it's almost time for us to jump in

1396
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:28,319
our car and head back to sydney i think

1397
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:30,480
maynard that's right the skeptic mobile

1398
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:32,720
the skeptic hyundai

1399
00:51:36,870 --> 00:51:34,640
the hyundai of

1400
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:36,880
that's the one it works it works it

1401
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:38,160
works it does it's great it's really

1402
00:51:41,670 --> 00:51:40,000
good and now with air conditioning so

1403
00:51:43,589 --> 00:51:41,680
saunders has never had air conditioning

1404
00:51:44,950 --> 00:51:43,599
in a car ever before and today we don't

1405
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:44,960
need it it's not right we sure don't

1406
00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:46,160
need it had a lot of fun here at the

1407
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:47,359
character and thank you for everyone

1408
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,720
from the anomalous and ghost hunting

1409
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,880
community for talking to us and

1410
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:52,319
we welcome your feedback on what they

1411
00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:54,160
had to say and i've really enjoyed

1412
00:51:58,309 --> 00:51:56,000
myself and thank you for parakon for

1413
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:58,319
having me up as a speaker and a guest i

1414
00:52:01,670 --> 00:52:00,160
really enjoyed giving my talk last night

1415
00:52:02,790 --> 00:52:01,680
and i only just made it through before

1416
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:02,800
my voice

1417
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:04,480
gave away it gave up

1418
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:06,720
but next week i hope to be over this

1419
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:08,960
wretched cold i should take more vitamin

1420
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:11,119
c and d and e and f and all the other

1421
00:52:13,349 --> 00:52:11,920
ones

1422
00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:13,359
yeah well particularly the f because

1423
00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:15,520
that's very important and vitamin p

1424
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:18,079
which is found in limes

1425
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:18,880
what

1426
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:21,280
vitamin p is found in limes i've never

1427
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:23,440
heard of vitamin p look let's discuss

1428
00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:24,720
this while these people let's go

1429
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:26,720
downstairs get out some limes and

1430
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:29,359
discuss some vitamin p we will and until

1431
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:31,200
next time this is richard maynard

1432
00:52:38,870 --> 00:52:33,119
signing off from

1433
00:52:44,349 --> 00:52:40,470
you've been listening to the skeptic

1434
00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:44,359
zone podcast visit our website at

1435
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:46,800
www.skepticzone.tv for contacts an

1436
00:52:52,870 --> 00:52:50,240
archive of all episodes since 2008

1437
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:52,880
and our online store please support the

1438
00:52:59,030 --> 00:52:55,440
skeptic zone by following us on twitter

1439
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:59,040
at skepticzone liking us on facebook and

1440
00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:01,599
leaving a review on itunes

1441
00:53:06,150 --> 00:53:03,280
you can also show your support by

1442
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:06,160
subscribing via paypal for as little as

1443
00:53:10,150 --> 00:53:08,240
99 cents a week

1444
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:10,160
the skeptic zone is an independent

1445
00:53:14,309 --> 00:53:12,319
production the views and opinions

1446
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:14,319
expressed on the skeptic zone are not